What would be the ideal average for arriving at ITM?

lll_JR_lll: Greetings,

I have doubts about this statistic, I know it involves the long term and I would like to know from friends what would be the ideal percentage for a beginner.

I play sits from 0.25 – 2.20 – 4.40 and my average is 13.3% in ITM.

I thank you in advance.

Sarsante: First of all, I advise you to start with proper bankroll management.

To play MTT, it is advisable to play with 100 buy-ins.

so if you have $25 you would play the 0.25 ones and to play the 4.40 ones the ideal is to have $440.

for itm and roi to be reliable, at least a thousand tournaments must be played, some defend more than 2 thousand.

the expected itm can be between 10-15%, maybe a little more for micros.

prof_anselmo: in this matter of ITM, it is average. As Sarsante stated, 10 to 15 % of ITM is normal. Professionals are also within this average. Because they play forward and always aggressive, therefore, they run more risks.

Yesterday I was watching Gomes play, and I saw some interesting hands, which perhaps I would have played differently, but now comes the detail: the man has international bracelets, and who is this humble mortal to say otherwise hehehehe

but the average of itm is the same, and you are in

wltr: You are within the average, but it is necessary to have a “certain” amount of sampling to be able to have correct data, as sarsante said, 1k tournaments would be enough to demonstrate with confidence. In addition, it is essential that you play following solid bankroll management to avoid going broke and moving up the limits safely and profitably because by playing outside the limit that your bankroll allows, you tend to play with fear of calling, raising, 3betting, etc., harming your game.

Melvins: The problem is that it depends a bit on the style. Someone with 20% is not necessarily better than someone with 12%, if he reaches the final tables more often. I know that the ITM of the best Portuguese online players is 14-15% (in 2009, João Barbosa must have had about 50% in the live EPT lol… and he is aggressive… Luca Pagano is conservative and has several ITMs, but no titles).

I think what matters next are statistics like the final table… I mean, the most important ones are ROI, absolute prizes and hourly rate. :p

Cebola: The problem is that it depends a bit on the style. Someone with 20% is not necessarily better than someone with 12%, if he reaches the final tables more often. I know that the ITM of the best Portuguese online players is 14-15% (in 2009, João Barbosa must have had about 50% in the live EPT lol… and he is aggressive… Luca Pagano is conservative and has several ITMs, but no titles).

I think what matters next are statistics like the final table… I mean, the most important ones are ROI, absolute prizes and hourly rate. :p

Luca Pagano, if I'm not mistaken, is the guy who has reached the most Final tables in EPT's, but he hasn't won any titles yet.

op, you shouldn't worry about these statistics yet, just worry about winning the tournament, getting to the ft which is already much better than getting several items in a row...

lll_JR_lll: I think about the long term and if I'm on the right path, I think I need to adjust my ITM strategy to reach the FT more often and learn to withstand when other players speed up the game or become more aggressive.

prof_anselmo: my friend, with blinds between 100 and 200 forward and ANTE at the stop, people tend to speed up the game and add more 3bets, so incorporate 3bets light and cbet after your cbet, if he hasn't come home pre-flop, regardless of his cards. From the moment you 3bet and he just calls, you take control of the hand.

Of course if you have the stack for a 3bet and fold..

Right path you are, tools you need more FT you will reach (MASTER JEDI)…

Jokes aside... I play very large tournaments with fields of more or less 3 thousand players, in addition to the jungles of 8 to 9 thousand players that I'm also in from time to time hehehehehe

Without this it gets complicated... I proposed a discussion about the traditional style or Small Ball, it's worth you reading it and discussing it with us there...

//pokerdicas.com/forum/discussao-geral-sobre-poker/8282-jogar-padrao-adaptar-se-para-small-ball.html

Melvins: @Cebola: Luca Pagano doesn't play for titles. I don't know how many final tables he has (but João Barbosa, for example, who is more aggressive, has reached ITM more times in the last 2 years and won a title), but I've seen him at a final table and, without having a great stack, AQ is a vulnerable card for him and he is exposed to bluffs. He seems to simply give up on the fight for the title, I don't consider him a good player at this stage, although the number of ITMs is necessarily that of a good player.

I have to explore this aspect better, which is basically the most interesting aspect of poker, but the most difficult to manage. It is important to play to win, but I think there is a lot of contradictory information or, at the very least, confusing information.

DonVitche: Friends, regardless of the Topic, since Master Anselmo is also speaking here, I would like to know your opinion:

When I see a LAG at my table, most of the time I get the impression that he is playing to lose. Sometimes he wins good pots, always without a showdown, and later on, with a good stack, he becomes very tight. Is this interpretation that the guy is playing to lose, in his opinion, the ideal behavior to win the tournament?

Do you see them like that too?

Cheers!

afsalagoas: Donvitche,

It's not about playing to lose, ok, it's about playing with smaller raises and calling too... The idea is to mask your range and get a good double...

Playing Small Ball is a high level, it is not total “donkeytoria”.

You didn't understand the context.

Sarsante: DonVitche, good LAGs are the most successful players at their limits. They master the positional aspect of the game, make good reads and since they don't just play good cards, they often get paid when they have good hands.

The problem is that it is much harder to be a good LAG than a TAG. That is why we see more winning TAGs than LAGs.

DonVitche: I understand, Alagoas, but I was talking about the image of the LAGs at the tables, but I ended up using the wrong topic. Please apologize for that. I will post in the correct one.

Hugs, friend!

DonVitche: DonVitche, good LAGs are the most successful players at their limits. They master the positional aspect of the game, make good reads and since they don't just play good cards, they often get paid when they have good hands.

The problem is that it is much harder to be a good LAG than a TAG. That is why we see more winning TAGs than LAGs.

Yes, Sarsante, but the image they give to the other players at the tables is that they don't care if they lose, that is, they're playing to lose. My question is this: ...do the LAGs really want to give this impression? Is it real? I mean, in their opinion, their goal would be to get ahead strong, and the price of that is to greatly increase the chances of losing right at the beginning?

Friends, I am transferring this conversation to Prof_Anselmo's Topic, which seems to me to be the most appropriate place: //pokerdicas.com/forum/discussao-geral-sobre-poker/8282-jogar-padrao-adaptar-se-para-small-ball-2.html#post90489

Petrillo: Great discussion guys! Congratulations!!

@ Answering the topic question.

The ideal number of ITMs is 100%.

@ Answering what the question wanted to know

What you meant in the thread was “what would be a good success rate in MTTs?”. The answer doesn’t make sense in terms of ITMs. In practice, it doesn’t matter how many ITMs you have. What matters is the return on investment (ROI).

I understand that a good return on investment for micro limits is 10%. For more expensive limits, I believe 5% is very good.

Thanks!

Le_AmericoJF: Dude, moving away from statistics a bit, I know a guy from Juiz de Fora who plays to get ITM no matter what. According to him, even if he stays short the entire tournament and only gets back what he paid for, he says it's worth it for the experience, over time you start to get good positions. But to do that he stays ultra tight the entire tournament, but he guarantees that he has already made more than 500% profit on his first deposit investment. I don't know, I think it's cool, but playing shortstack the entire temple can be frustrating, on the other hand you end up being a little more respected.

Sarsante: Dude, moving away from statistics a bit, I know a guy from Juiz de Fora who plays to get ITM no matter what. According to him, even if he stays short the entire tournament and only gets back what he paid for, he says it's worth it for the experience, as over time you start to get good positions. But to do that he stays ultra tight the entire tournament, but he guarantees that he has already made more than 500% profit on his first deposit investment. I don't know, I think it's cool, but playing shortstack the entire temple can be frustrating, on the other hand you end up being a little more respected.

In MTT you play short stack almost all the time, except for the first levels or if you are one of the CL's in a deep non-turbo tournament.

Melvins: I don't think it's worth being ultra-tight just to get ITM. For that, it's better to play DoN or SnG, in my opinion. The prizes that are worth it are in the final table.

Marcelo: What matters, guys, is the ROI and the hourly rate.

If the guy makes more profit per hour playing to get ITM, great!

But it is known that playing to win tends to be better in the long run.

Itallo13: I started playing poker about 2 years ago but only with play money, then I found a club in my city, played some satellites and won a spot in the city's main tournament, in which I had only played live 4 times in the satellites, in my first tournament I made the final table and was in the ITM bubble, I came in 8th out of 40, then I started playing on pppoker with the club and played about 5 more MTT and I can't get into the ITM, I keep thinking about what I did wrong, I'm studying the world every day, I know I'm a beginner but I keep thinking about what I'm doing wrong if it's better to stop or continue in poker.

Original author: lll_JR_lll.